Odd Question regarding the Garmin 35-HVS Receiver Antennae

Discussion in 'Garmin GPS' started by proton32060, May 10, 2020.

  1. proton32060

    proton32060

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    I have an odd question regarding the Garmin 35-HVS Receiver-Antennae and the reason it is an odd question is because it was used for an odd purpose. I apologize for the length but unless you guys understand what it was used for you can’t possibly tell me if there is a solution.

    So please bear with me.
    There is a company called Electric Time that makes large architectural clocks that are large, very well made, and incredibly expensive. If you have ever seen the fancy street clocks on light poles in Disney or fancy clocks in big buildings like banks or other places the clocks you saw were built by Electric Time.

    I bought one in 2007 to go in a very ornate sign in front of my Dental Office. All of these clocks have a separate controller external to the clock faces that actually keeps time and moves the hands.

    So the clock faces are just a simple display while the real clock is inside the controller which is inside the building. All the controller does is send a pulse once a minute to move the hands and the controller has to be told manually what position the hands are in for the hands and controller to be synchronized.

    The controller itself contains a quartz clock that is very accurate and tracks both the time, date, and year.

    However, when I bought the clock there was an option of having the controller use a GPS receiver (Garmin 35-HVS ) to obtain the time and date so it would essentially be an atomic clock that kept perfect time and would track changes in Daylight Savings time.

    That is why I am on this forum.

    The clock controller used the 35-HVS to track the time and date and nothing else. No positioning data or any kind of tracking. It was simply used for date and time.


    Last month I repainted the sign which meant shutting down the controller and removing the faces. When I put it back together I realized the GPS unit wasn’t locking because the GPS indicator was blinking when it should have been on continuously.

    It had been 13 years since I originally hooked it up and had not read the manual since that time so I never realized the GPS had gone out and the Controller had reverted back to its own internal clock. The clock simply worked all these years so I had no reason to pay much attention to it.

    The controller has quite a few lights that blink and I never paid that much attention to it and only realized the GPS lock light was supposed to be on continuously after going back through the manual during the reassembly.

    After taking the 35-HVS apart I saw it was rusted inside and had obviously gone out years ago but I had never realized it or that the controller had gone back to using its own internal clock.

    Until today.
    As many of you know ( and I only found out today ) the GPS rollover occurred in April of 2019 and scrambled a lot of GPS devices.

    When the rollover occurred the controller never picked it up since the GPS had gone out. I never even knew this was an issue with GPS until I hooked up a new 35-HVS I found on Ebay and saw the controller now thinks it is September of 2000.

    I do not have a schematic for the controller and Electric Time is not very forthcoming with information short of wanting to sell me a new controller and GPS unit.

    For $3000.00 I might add.
    I know the 35-HVS is both a Receiver and antennae so the controller simply used the data from it but since I can’t get a schematic for the controller I don’t know if it contains specific hardware for the 35-HVS or simply used it as a generic device and nothing else.

    So after all that here is the question:
    Does Garmin make a newer unit that would provide the same type of data the controller could use to calculate the right date and time or did it require specific internal hardware as well to read the data from the 35-HVS?

    The controller only used four wires from the 35-HVS.
    The Black and Red for power and the:

    White- TXD1- First Serial Asynchronous output
    Blue- RXD1 - First Serial Asynchronous input

    Since I can’t get a schematic for the Controller I just wondered if any of you guys knew if the Controller might be using the 35-HVS as a generic device that could be substituted with a newer unit or if the 35-HVS was hardware specific.

    I admit I don’t know much about these units but I just wondered since the 35-HVS appeared to be a complete GPS device in itself if it might have been sending standard generic data that a newer unit would also send that the controller would recognize.

    Sort of like a computer and monitor setup. The computer simply sends the data to the monitor and any monitor can read it and create the display. As a result, any monitor can read the information regardless of the type of computer or the video card it happens to contain. The two are not hardware dependent.

    The Specs from Garmin can be found at the link below if it might help.
    http://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS35LPSeries_TechnicalSpecification.pdf
    Any help or advice would be appreciated.

    Even if the advice is I am out of luck.
    Again, sorry for the length.
    Below is an example of the kind of clock I am talking about. Mine is just in a sign instead of on a pole.



    Electric Time.jpg
     
    proton32060, May 10, 2020
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  2. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    The serial (RS232) output from the 35-HVS uses a protocol called NMEA 0183 Ver. 2.0, this protocol is used by almost every Garmin GPS ever made so there is a good chance that you could get the same info. into your clock controller from a different GPS unit, however there could be a problem because this protocol uses various 'sentences' (single lines of text) to supply different sets of data, typically a GPS unit sends out maybe 5 or 6 NMEA sentences containing time, date, position, satellite information etc. and your 35-HVS will do the same, however the 35-HVS is capable of outputting 12 different NMEA sentences and this can be configured by sending setup data into the 35-HVS to select which sentences are sent.

    As all Garmins use the same protocols for both input and output it is possible when connecting your clock controller to a different Garmin GPS unit, that the unit will accept the same requests from the controller and then output NMEA in the same format as the 35-HVS but this can't be guaranteed.

    I have some questions :-
    1) If I have understood you correctly, when setting up the clock you tell the controller the time displayed on the clock and then the controller sends lots of pulses to the clock until it displays the real time, after this the controller sends another pulse every minute, is this correct?

    2) Is it possible to set the correct time on the controller manually ?

    3) Is the replacement offered for $3000 a different GPS and the same controller or a different GPS and different controller?

    4) Some GPS receivers continue to work even with the rollover error (They just display the wrong date), so are you sure the replacement 35-HVS is not working?

    5) is the GPS indicator blinking with the replacement 35-HVS and the controller displaying the wrong time as well as wrong date / year?
     
    Nuvi-Nebie, May 10, 2020
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  3. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Nuvi,
    Thanks for the reply.
    I will try to answer all your questions and if I didn’t answer one adequately please tell me and I will elaborate as best I can.

    Questions:

    1) If I have understood you correctly, when setting up the clock you tell the controller the time displayed on the clock and then the controller sends lots of pulses to the clock until it displays the real time, after this the controller sends another pulse every minute, is this correct?

    Yes.
    There is a menu you can go through that has ( input Hand Position) as one of the options.
    When you enter that menu the hands will freeze in their current position and stay there indefinitely ( to allow the user time to go outside and see what they say) while still keeping time in the background. Once you enter the hand position and exit all menus the Controller will send multiple pulses until it synchronizes the hand position with what it was told to the current time. There is no feedback from the faces telling the Controller their position. You have to tell it and it keeps track of it from there.


    One side note which may or may not be helpful. :
    I live if Florida so we get hurricanes that cause Power Failures from a few hours to a few days.
    Once power is restored the clock will remember the hand position and reset the hands to the correct time automatically with no user input.
    I never thought about it before but since I had 5 weeks to repaint the sign ( due to the shutdown) I had a lot of time to think about the sign and the clock.

    Like I said before, once I set it up in 2007 I quit thinking about it or paying much attention since it simply worked.
    The faces had gotten dirty through the years so I called Electric Time so they could explain how they came apart so I could clean the faces and the inside of the glass.
    It was not obvious how they were put together from looking at them either from the front or the back.
    Electric Time was shutdown as well so I was talking to the owner.

    She told me how the clock faces came apart and since I could not find the original manual I got with the clock she emailed me a copy in pdf format. The manual didn’t explain how the faces came apart but was instead the original setup manual for the controller explaining how to wire it up and navigate through its various menus.

    As I read through it there was a section about power failures and how the controller would reset the hands automatically. And it would continue to do so for at least 10 years.
    But it didn’t say “ HOW” it did it.

    I figured it must have a battery in the controller somewhere that preserved the information much like a motherboard. But there was no direct mention of it in the manual or any pictures or diagrams of what was actually inside the controller.
    So I called the lady back.

    I asked her how the clock remembered the hand position in blackouts and told her it must have a battery backup in it somewhere.
    She said it did have a battery inside.

    I asked her since the clock was apart anyway and I was working on it wouldn’t it be a good idea to go ahead and replace the battery now since the clock was 13 years old and the manual said it could only remember the current settings for 10.

    She said, “ No, no ,no, don’t worry about it. The Controller will tell you when to replace the battery and when it does you call us and we will sell you a new one”.

    That sounded kind of strange but I didn’t want to argue with her so I didn’t press the point.
    But I still had a 13 year old clock in one hand and a manual that told me it would only maintain its current settings during a power failure for 10 years in the other.
    So I decided to open up the Controller anyway to see what it was using for a battery backup.
    I was expecting something exotic but what I found was a BR2330 Lithium Battery and that was what it was using to maintain settings and the correct time during power failures.

    I am telling you this because I want you to understand Electric Time and how it operates.

    They are very nice people but if you look through their Website you will realize their customers are usually large corporations with very deep pockets.
    So I am sure what they wanted was when the battery went out they wanted me to call them so they could sell me a battery I could buy on Amazon for $7.00 and instead sell me the same battery for $100.00.

    They can do that because large companies like Disney or banks don’t care about price. They would just pay Electric Time whatever they wanted and be done with it.
    Unfortunately, a small town Dentist doesn’t have the kind of Bank Account Disney has.

    I just want you to understand their mindset.

    They deal with large corporations who simply pays whatever Electric Time asks and buys whatever they recommend regardless of price.
    And it works for them.

    After all, can you see a Purchasing Agent at Disney bargain shopping batteries or anything else on Amazon?
    Or would they simply place the order and have their Billing Department cut a check and be done with it?

    So that is why I posted here.

    They don’t want to deal with individuals looking for cheaper options. They simply sell the customer a whole new setup at whatever price they want and the large companies they deal with pay it without question.

    And by the way, $3000.00 was a guess for a new controller and GPS unit.
    I haven’t contacted them yet but I am sure that it would actually cost a lot more than that if I decided to go that route.
    So my whole point is they are not geared for “ Customers on a Budget” since they don’t have to be.

    Most of these clocks are bought by large companies who simply pay the Bill for whatever their Maintenance Department wants without question.

    That is probably why they are so closed mouthed regarding how their Controller works and will not offer any schematics or technical details.

    They are not very motivated to help customers find a more economical “work around” for their problems. They just tell them to buy a whole new setup for thousands of dollars and their typical corporate customer pays it without blinking an eye.

    So no, they are not offering a new GPS unit to go with my old controller. They would simply sell me the same GPS unit it originally came with.


    Okay, Back to your questions:

    2) Is it possible to set the correct time on the controller manually?

    No.
    Not with the GPS connected and operating.
    Any attempts at resetting the time or date are instantly overridden by the data from the GPS the minute you exit the various menus and return the controller to normal operation.

    However, there is one thing you need to understand.
    The GPS unit was an “ add-on option” for the Controller, it is not a necessity.

    If the GPS is disconnected the Controller can be set to the correct time and date and will operate as a normal clock keeping track of the time and date just like any normal clock would.

    In other words, the Controller itself is a Quartz Clock in and of itself and will operate independently of the GPS if it is not connected.

    And I am sure they sold a lot of them without the GPS option. I just wanted it because I didn’t want to worry about checking and adjusting it periodically to the exact time or have some patient come in and say,” Hey Doc, your clock is 5 minutes fast”.

    That is why I never knew the GPS had gone out until recently when I took it apart and put it back together using the manual as a reference.
    When the 35-HVS quit working sometime in the past the Controller reverted back to its own internal clock and kept going from there.

    That is why it took me all these years before I realized the GPS had gone out. The internal clock kept working and displaying roughly the correct time without synchronizing itself with the GPS.
    It even corrected itself every year for Daylight Savings Time without the GPS so I never had a reason to suspect anything was wrong.
    And since it is a quartz clock it never got so far off that me or anyone else ever noticed if the time it was displaying was off.

    Even without the GPS the time itself was probably still close enough that no one ( including me) would ever have noticed if it was off a few minutes either way.

    And to be honest, I never thought to check the clock against my phone to see if it was displaying the exact time. Not realizing the GPS had gone out I never had a reason to see if was displaying the same exact time my phone was. I simply assumed it was since I had no reason to think otherwise.

    One other thing:

    The new GPS unit did display the correct time but it was off by one hour, it was the date and year that were off dramatically.
    When I hooked up the new one I noticed the time was right but it was off by an hour and the date it displayed was September of 2000 ( I don’t remember the exact date it displayed).

    There is a menu that you can offset the Controller from Greenwich Mean Time depending on your Time Zone so it will display the correct time for your particular area using the GPS.

    Since it thought it was September of 2000 that was why it was off by exactly one hour.
    It was not taking Daylight Savings Time into account which is why it was an hour off. When I changed the offset from Eastern Standard Time to Atlantic it displayed the correct time. But it was only because I tricked it into thinking it was in another Time Zone an hour earlier.

    And to anticipate your next question:
    No, you can’t manually change the date or year with the GPS hooked up either. Regardless of what you tell it, as long as the GPS is hooked up it will use that information to override any manual input when you exit the menus.


    3) Is the replacement offered for $3000 a different GPS and the same controller or a different GPS and different controller?

    Again, like I said the $3000.00 is a guess, it would probably be a lot more, but yes it did involve a new Controller and GPS unit. I discovered that on their web site, but they never display prices on ANYTHING.
    I think it is like what J.R. Ewing used to say on the old TV show Dallas, “If you have to ask what it costs, you can’t afford it”.

    But as a side note I did call them when I realized the GPS was out and asked if they could sell me a replacement. They told me they no longer used that system but did have an old stock GPS unit they would sell me for $450.00.

    Remembering the battery I took the GPS unit off the bracket it originally came on so I could see the bottom of the unit to find out what it really was.
    I was sure they were not making their own GPS units but were buying them from someone else.

    That was when I discovered from the sticker on the unit that it was actually a Garmin 35-HVS. In fact it was Garmin Model # Garmin 35-HVS 011-00404-03.

    So I went on Ebay and found exactly the same unit all the way down to the last digit on the Model Number.
    Also, before I posted here I looked up the unit and Garmin admitted the 35-HVS would have problems after April 2019 but due to its age no firmware updates or fixes would be offered.
    Now I know why the Ebay Seller only wanted $19.00 for a brand new boxed unit.

    So the bottom line is the owner may own the company but I doubt she knows much about how their Controllers work or the GPS rollover problem.

    If Garmin itself said the 35-HVS would fail after April 2019 and they were not going to provide a patch I doubt a clock company would have the expertise to reprogram a Garmin unit on their own that they didn’t build or fully understand.
    Neither did they tell me when they quoted me the $450.00 price that the Controller would need to be modified to use a new 35-HVS.

    So my guess is they would have sold me for $450.00 the same exact unit I paid $19.00 for on Ebay and the same problem would have happened.

    Put simply, the owner may know about clocks but probably knows very little about GPS or how her own Controllers operate. If she did she would have told me something in my current Controller would need modification in order to work properly with an outdated GPS Receiver.

    So I will ask you the same question I asked myself:

    If Garmin knew the unit would fail after the rollover and said there was no fix and they had no plans of offering one, do you think a company that makes clocks could update the unit themselves?
    Especially when they made no mention that their own Controller would need to be modified to work properly?
    I doubt it.

    My guess is they would have sold me the unit and the same problem I had with the one from Ebay would have occurred with theirs. Especially since it was exactly the same unit the clock originally came with in 2007 and was what they were intending to sell me.
    At that point they would have probably told me to buy a new Controller and GPS unit if I wanted it to work properly.


    4) Some GPS receivers continue to work even with the rollover error (They just display the wrong date), so are you sure the replacement 35-HVS is not working?

    I am not going to make you read the same explanation again I wrote earlier. Yes, the new one works and it displays the correct time. It just doesn’t know the correct date and year. But beyond that, yes it works perfectly.


    5) Is the GPS indicator blinking with the replacement 35-HVS and the controller displaying the wrong time as well as wrong date / year?

    Again, not to make you read the same thing I wrote earlier. Yes, it operates and the GPS light on the Controller is on solid as it should be. It displays the correct time ( off an hour because it thinks it is September so it hasn’t corrected for Daylight Savings Time) the only problem is the date is off and it thinks it is in September of the year 2000 instead of May of 2020.



    Final Note:
    As I said earlier, the GPS was an option for the Controller, not a necessity.
    The clock works just fine and has done so for years without it. All it means is without the GPS to Synchronize it you might have to adjust the time with your phone every now and then to keep it at roughly the right time.

    Further, the clock itself is simply a clock with hands and does not display date or year. It is like the picture I included. It is just an oversized outdoor wall clock. The only reason I did not upload a picture of my own sign is it has my name, address, and phone number on it and I didn’t want to post anything that personally specific on the internet.

    The point is I can live without it if I have to since I am not going to spend thousands of dollars to buy a new Controller and compatible GPS unit from Electric Time.


    But my wife is right about one thing.
    She said, “ You are a perfectionist about everything which is probably why you are such a good Dentist. But I know you and it will drive you crazy if the clock isn’t working exactly as you want it to without the GPS. So if you can fix the GPS, then fix it”.

    And she is right to a point.
    But I am not going to pay thousands of dollars for a new controller and GPS and go through all the work of installing it since it hasn’t worked for years without my even realizing it.

    The reason I posted here is I wondered if the 35-HVS was sending a standardized signal that could be interchanged with a newer unit that the controller would recognize and if so did you guys know who makes it and where could I get it.

    Like I said earlier, I can read a schematic to a point and I can tell you anything you want to know about head and neck anatomy but how GPS units operate is a little out of my line.

    But when I discovered the 35-HVS was a self contained Receiver and Antennae I began to wonder if it was sending data in a standardized format that was universal between different similar units.

    And if that was the case, if there was a newer unit I could use that the controller would recognize. Especially since all it really wanted from the GPS was the date and time and nothing else. No Tracking or Positioning info, but only what the time and date are.

    And what made me think that was reading Garmins original page describing the unit.
    It seemed to be a Universal unit that could be used in Aviation, Marine, and even stuck to the dashboard in a car. And it made no mention of any specific Garmin hardware needed on the other end.
    It seemed to be an all in one device that was hardware independent regarding what it was hooked up to.
    That is why I decided to take so much of your time explaining it.

    It appeared on the surface that the information the 35-HVS was sending might be standardized and could be used by a host of different devices on the other end. Much like there are a myriad of standardized protocols in the tech world.
    A good example is the internet, or data protocols used by Routers, etc. A Router doesn't care if it is talking to a PC or an Ipad since the Wi-Fi protocols are standardized between all devices.

    And since all the clock wants is the time and date and not any positioning data I began to wonder if a newer unit could be substituted that did essentially the same thing but with newer firmware that compensated for the recent GPS rollover.

    Reading the Garmin page it appeared the unit could be hooked up to a range of different devices and work properly. That was what made me wonder if the unit was using a standard protocol that a variety of units could interpret and use.

    And by the way, one final question:
    And the reason I am asking is it would take you two seconds to answer and me several hours to re-run the wiring and hook the GPS unit up again.

    Do GPS Satellites take changes in Daylight Savings Time into account in their broadcasts?
    The reason I am asking is there was a menu in the Controller where I could set the date when Daylight Savings Time starts and ends.
    It occurred to me last night that if when Daylight Savings Time starts and ends is stored in the Receiver itself and the time stamp from the satellites don't change when we switch from one to the other I might be able through a lot of figuring to use the date and year it is displaying and give it modified dates for Daylight Savings time to compensate for the wrong month and date it is displaying.
    So if it thinks it is September 10 years ago and I know when the real time DST starts and ends I can modify the dates where it does switch back and forth and work anyway.
    Like I said, the clock doesn't display the date and year, only the time.
    So lets say I know DST starts in one month on June 20 and the Controller thinks it is September 20 of 2000 I can tell it DST starts October 20 and it would work because it will be consistently wrong.
    No, that probably wouldn't work or be too much hassle due to the difference in the number of days each month has. I would have to do the calculations each year based on the number of days so I would have to mess with it every year.
    It would be a lot easier if it was off exactly 10 years and thought it was May 10, 2000. At least then it would work without a of of fiddling and the only time I would have to start re figuring is if either we were in a leap year or it thought it was in one.
    No, I don't think there is a good way to compensate the controller for a GPS that isn't even in the right month, regardless if the time is correct.

    I am including a copy of the Controllers manual if you are interested.
     

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    proton32060, May 10, 2020
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  4. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    Hi again

    I'm glad to hear that it is possible to operate the clock in a non-GPS mode (without atomic accuracy and some auto setting) as it is still something that can be used, I appreciate that you would like it to be GPS driven again but it wouldn't be the end of the world if it wasn't, the question about the replacement GPS + Controller was really to work out if the Electric Time Co. would be selling you a different model of GPS receiver (not a 35-HVS) while still using the original controller, this would prove that a different Garmin device can be used on your controller, If they were going to sell you another 35-HVS then they must have found a way of correcting the 'Week Rollover' problem that is built into all 35-HVS units, I have some good news on that front, although Garmin did say that they won't be releasing new software for the 35-HVS so that it reports the correct date, I have found a website that details how to fix the 35-HVS's problem, this involves running a Windows configuration program to change the setup of the 35-HSV including its time / date

    So you have a few options to choose from :-

    1) Try to fix the 35-HVS's problem, this would involve connecting the 35-HVS to a computer running Windows and a program called SNCFG_320.exe, the connection would need to be a Serial (RS232) port connection only found on older computers, but you can get a USB to Serial converter cable, if you don't have the equipment to do this maybe you could ask a friendly computer geek to help

    2) Try a different Garmin GPS unit, newer units only have USB interfaces, but older GPS 18x LVC, ETREX, GPSMap60 etc don't have the rollover problem but do have serial ports, this option my also need the help of that computer geek

    3)Use the controller without GPS, initially, connect the 35-HVS to get accurate time onto the controller then disconnect it and set the date

    If 1) above is not possible, I think it is worth telephoning a Garmin Helpdesk and asking if there is a replacement for the 35-HVS such as the GPS 18x LVC that will do the same job but does not have the rollover problem

    No they transmit GMT at all times, the problem is different countries move their clocks in (on) different ways (dates), some countries never move them, so there is no worldwide standard

    Just for reference, the 'sentences' sent by the GPS receiver look like this :-

    $GPGGA,092750.000,5321.6802,N,00630.3372,W,1,8,1.03,61.7,M,55.2,M,,*76
    $GPGSA,A,3,10,07,05,02,29,04,08,13,,,,,1.72,1.03,1.38*0A
    $GPGSV,3,1,11,10,63,137,17,07,61,098,15,05,59,290,20,08,54,157,30*70
    $GPGSV,3,2,11,02,39,223,19,13,28,070,17,26,23,252,,04,14,186,14*79
    $GPGSV,3,3,11,29,09,301,24,16,09,020,,36,,,*76
    $GPRMC,092750.000,A,5321.6802,N,00630.3372,W,0.02,31.66,280511,,,A*43
    09h 27m 50s time and 28th May 2011 date in red above

    Link to NMEA data Click HERE

    BTW thanks for the controller manual PDF, I was hoping the controller might have a separate 'CLOCK' input so you could feed in very accurate time from another source but it doesn't look like there is one
     
    Nuvi-Nebie, May 11, 2020
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  5. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Thanks Nuvi,

    I can use SNCFG_320.exe, to reprogram the unit.
    I had to do a similar thing to an old Sony 21" Professional Graphics Monitor I had years ago.
    The only problem is I need some type of instructions on how to wire it up and what is specifically needed and the procedure for updating it.
    Is there any information available on how to use the program?
    In and of itself It doesn't help me without any kind of guide regarding how to wire it up to the computer and how to actually use it.
    Nuvi,
    I am sorry, I missed the link you added after you mentioned the program.
    I am trying to catch up with 5 weeks of patients and all the ones that were already scheduled so I read through it fast. let me read through it later when I am not trying to do twice as much work in half the time.
    Let me read it and get back.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    proton32060, May 11, 2020
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  6. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Nuvi,

    I read the page and understand how to update the unit.
    My only problem is these units were shipped with Bare wires instead of a Serial Port plug and after spending hours searching the internet and hours on the phone with Garmin I am stuck.
    Does anyone know how the unit was wired to the serial port?

    With that information I can update the units but without it there is no way I could ever figure out how the unit was wired in the serial port version.


    35-HVS.jpg
     
    proton32060, May 12, 2020
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  7. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    OK, I'm not sure what equipment you have / need and how much experience you have with electrical stuff but here goes, the only user guide I can find for the 35-HVS (see file attached below) only shows 5 wires for the unit red, white, blue, black and green but your picture shows 3 more wires violet, grey and yellow so I'm not sure what they do, however as I'm guessing you have already successfully connected your 35-HVS to your clock controller using the wires shown in the controller diagram (the first 4), we don't need to know what the other 3 are for, here is diagram from the user manual :-
    5-wires.png
    you need to connect the 35-HVS to a computer COM port also called Serial port or RS232 port, the old Desktop / Laptop connector looked like this 9 Way 'D' connector, not to be confused with the 15 way VGA connector below it, (* If you don't have a COM port see below)
    9-D-Male.jpg

    So you need to connect your 35-HVS wires to a 9 Way 'D' female connector like this :-
    plug.jpg
    If you don't have a 9 Way 'D' female connector or you are not able to solder wires onto it, you may be able to use an existing wired one from and old serial mouse or serial keyboard, the 9 way connectors usually do have numbers on them (although they are very small, see first picture), the connections are :-

    Black = Ground (Common) to pin 5 on the 9Way 'D' female connector
    White = Transmit >>>>>>> to pin 2 on the 9Way 'D' female connector
    Blue = Receive <<<<<<<<< to pin 3 on the 9Way 'D' female connector

    also for power

    Black = Ground (Common) to power supply ( on the Clock controller)
    Red = + Vin ( on the Clock controller)

    * If you don't have a COM port on your desktop / Laptop computer you will need a USB to Serial converter like Figure 5 in this link (Click HERE)
     

    Attached Files:

    Nuvi-Nebie, May 12, 2020
    #7
  8. proton32060

    proton32060

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    That was exactly what I needed to know.
    No, doing this is no problem.
    I have tackled a lot more complicated projects than this in the past.
    Updating the firmware on a Sony Graphics monitor involved a home brew solution more complicated than this and I had no trouble once I understood how to wire it up.
    And this is a piece of cake compared to that.
    I just needed to know which wire went to which serial pin number.
    I am surprised the patch can be done using only two of the data lines, I was expecting the connection to the serial port to have been a lot more complicated.
    But you told me everything I needed to know and I have an old laptop that still has a serial port so I should have no trouble.
    You gave me all the information I needed.
    Thanks to all of you.
    You fixed my problem and saved me thousands of dollars in the process.
    I really appreciate it.
     
    proton32060, May 12, 2020
    #8
  9. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    The original RS232 protocol was via a 25 way connector with 2 data wires and almost all the other wires used for hardware handshaking, basically to slow down the TX and RX with 'Ready To Send, Clear To Send, Data Terminal Ready etc. control signals, but as things speeded up they got used less and less and 25 pins became 9 pins, 2 data and only 6 control wires, they are still available for use but they went over to just using TX and RX with software control rather than hardware control, start and stop codes like XON and XOFF
     
    Nuvi-Nebie, May 12, 2020
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  10. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Nuvi,
    Congratulations.
    That last comment managed to go WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over my head.
    But either way you showed me how to fix it but how it works and your explanation was way beyond me, but I appreciate your help all the same.
    If you ever need to know how the carotid works or where the uvula is or even how the trigeminal nerve runs I can help you out.
    And on those I can even show you pretty pictures.
    But I will take your word for the above but I will admit you lost me after the first sentence.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
    proton32060, May 12, 2020
    #10
  11. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    Please let me know if you manage to fix the date problem*, on your 35-HVS using SNCFG_320.exe sensor configuration software, I can supply more details if you require them.

    I recognised carotid but I couldn't point to it on a diagram, uvula, I guess a lot of people (including me) would say is another word for tonsils but looking at the diagrams I can see it isn't, as for trigeminal nerve (three twins, thanks Google) it looks like something that needs to be fitted with a switch or at the very least a volume control :)

    It's strange how we have evolved to specialise in the jobs that we do, mankind is defiantly better off having dentists (and I hope electronics engineers), in the world but it is a fact that we would probably both struggle to survive without food producers, just as they would without us, we've come a long way from those early hunter gatherer days

    * Or have you already achieved this?
     
    Nuvi-Nebie, May 13, 2020
    #11
  12. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    proton32060 : Have you fixed your date problem?
     
    Nuvi-Nebie, May 19, 2020
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  13. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Haven't had time yet.
    Been trying to catch up with a 6 week backlog of patients.
    As soon as I get time I will let you know how it went.
     
    proton32060, May 20, 2020
    #13
  14. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Nuvi,
    I got all the parts I needed and bought a serial port breakout card from Amazon.
    Fortunately, I held on to an old Toshiba 4005CDT Laptop I used years ago and first needed to find it and then make sure it still worked.
    Fortunately I did find it, it works, and it has a serial port on the back.

    I am going to try to get this wired up, updated, and tested this week.

    My problem is if you shut down a Dental Office for 6 weeks the patients that were scheduled over the lock down and the ones that were scheduled after it ended all piled up together so we have been working 14 hour days trying to get caught up.

    So I am going to try to get this done this week if I can.
    Either way, I really appreciated your help and wanted you to know I haven't forgotten and will let you know how it went.
    The problem is so far I haven't had time to even take a breath let alone work on the clock.
    But I will get it done and let you know how it went as soon as I can get a couple of hours to myself to get it hooked up and the program running.
     
    proton32060, May 26, 2020
    #14
  15. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    Understood, it must be a very busy time
     
    Nuvi-Nebie, May 26, 2020
    #15
  16. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Nuvi,
    I hope you are still there.
    I need to make sure I understand exactly what to do before I mess with this.
    A few of the instructions I do not completely understand.

    I have listed all the instructions at the bottom so you can refer to them without going to another site.
    But I have a few questions to make sure I get this right.

    I need to explain a few things first:
    I told you earlier I did something similar on a Sony Monitor years ago but I watched a YouTube Video of someone else doing it first before I tried it myself. Also, there were things the monitor would do during the upgrade that were visible so you knew if things were going right along the way.
    Unfortunately, with this there is no way to rehearse it or know what’s coming next before you actually do it and there is no feedback during the procedure so the first time you do it may also be the last time if you screw it up.

    I tried running through the program options on a dry run without the controller just to get a feel for it but without the GPS it crashes.


    So I have a few questions about a few of the steps:

    What I intend to do is measure the voltage off the clock controller and then use my variable regulated DC power supply to match the voltage from the clock controller and do the upgrade in my workshop behind my office.

    The reason is the controller is buried in a closet and trying to do the upgrade using it directly as a power source would be very difficult.
    It would involve running bell wire 20 feet between it and the lab in my dental office to do the upgrade which would be kind of hard.

    It also became apparent this has to be done with the receiver outside so it can get satellite info. Otherwise there would be no way to know if it is registering the right date or not.
    That would also be nearly impossible using the clock controller since it is deep inside the office and getting the GPS outside would involve pulling wire back through conduit and I would rather not do that unless I am sure it is really fixed.

    The easiest way is put the unit outside and strap it to a ladder, then hook up the power supply and the appropriate connections to the lap top and do the upgrade in my workshop.


    Here are the steps I am not real sure of:

    Step 10:

    “10- Cycle power to the GPS receiver, re-perform steps 1 through 4 and then proceed with step 11”

    “ Cycle Power” sounds to me like cutting the power to the GPS and then turning it back on, going through steps 1 through 4 again and then going to step 11.
    Is that correct?

    Question step 11:

    “11- Use View/NMEA Transmitted Sentences and see what date is coming from the GPS receiver. If it is still 1024 weeks behind, then follow steps 12 through 16. (Otherwise, you're done.)”

    I have no idea what “Transmitted Sentences” would look like since I can’t rehearse the program before actually doing the upgrade but I am assuming the “sentences” displayed in the program on the laptop would be structured in a way that I could understand whether it is registering the correct year and date.

    Is that correct?

    Never mind- I reread that post you wrote that went way over my head. I believe by printing it out I can figure out what it is reading for the date and time.



    Second sentence in Step - 11:

    If it is still 1024 weeks behind, then follow steps 12 through 16.

    Steps 12 through 16:

    12 - Set your computer's clock ahead 9 years

    13 - Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS

    14 - Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS

    15 - Repeat steps 12 through 14 two more times

    16 - Cycle power to the GPS receiver, set your computer's clock to the correct date and time, re-perform steps 1 through 4 and proceed with step 17


    Question:
    When it says “Repeat steps 12 through 14 two more times” does that mean you leave the computer set 9 years ahead as you do it two more times or does it mean you advance the computer another nine years for the other two times?

    You are basically doing steps 12 through 16 a total of three times:
    So does that mean the first time the computer is set to 2029, then 2038 the second time, and finally 2047 the third time or do you leave it set at 2029 when you go through steps 12 and 16 three times?

    Steps:

    17 - Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS

    18 - Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS

    Once you do steps 17 and 18 I assume you are done.
    Is that right?





    Here are the instructions:


    1 Run SNSRCFG (or SNSRXCFG), choose the appropriate model of GPS receiver and click OK

    2 Use Comm/Setup, choose the correct com port, choose Auto for baud rate and click OK

    3 Use Config/Switch to NMEA mode and click through the pop-ups

    4 Use Comm/Connect (must be successful in order to continue, but a connection at a baud rate of 38400 or higher indicates a wiring error)

    5 Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS ( This step is critical. If missed the receiver may no longer send the correct data to the video overlay )

    6 Use Config/Sensor Configuration, make sure that Phase Output Data is not checked (this is called Garmin Binary Output when running SNSRXCFG), make any other desired changes and click OK

    7 Use Config/NMEA Sentence Selections, select the desired sentences and click OK ( Skip this step if only the date is being reset)

    8 Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS

    9 Use Config/Sensor Configuration and click the Reset NonVol or Erase NonVol button, whichever of these is present on the version of configuration software you are running

    10 Cycle power to the GPS receiver, re-perform steps 1 through 4 and then proceed with step 11

    11 Use View/NMEA Transmitted Sentences and see what date is coming from the GPS receiver. If it is still 1024 weeks behind, then follow steps 12 through 16. (Otherwise, you're done.)

    12 Set your computer's clock ahead 9 years

    13 Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS

    14 Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS

    15 Repeat steps 12 through 14 two more times

    16 Cycle power to the GPS receiver, set your computer's clock to the correct date and time, re-perform steps 1 through 4 and proceed with step 17

    17 Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS

    18 Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
    proton32060, May 27, 2020
    #16
  17. proton32060

    Nuvi-Nebie Moderator

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    You can supply the GPS receiver with any DC voltage from 6 Volts to 40 Volts using your variable regulated DC power supply

    10) Yes, Cycle power just means remove or turn off the power to the GPS receiver and then turn it back on or re-apply the power.

    11) "Use View/NMEA Transmitted Sentences", when you click on this option your laptop should start displaying the sentences I showed in post #4 above, you need to look at red text in GPRMC

    $GPRMC,092750.000,A,5321.6802,N,00630.3372,W,0.02,31.66,280511,,,A*43

    12-14) I would say that you only put the computer time forward by 9 years once because it does mention later on that the procedure might not work first time

    Basically what I would expect to happen is that you run 17) Use Config/Get Configuration from GPS and get a display like this but filled in with data from your GPS receiver

    config.jpg

    You would then go to 18) Use Config/Send Configuration to GPS to send the same data back to the GPS receiver BUT with the addition of the current time taken from your computer, you would check this by using the "View/NMEA Transmitted Sentences" to see if there is a different 'RED' date in the GPRMC sentence

    I am wondering if we can't cut down the 18 step procedure as some of it is only relevant to their application, I think it's safer to try this before trying the full procedure :-

    1 -5 setup
    6 - 7 NOT REQUIRED
    8 Send config
    9 - 10 NOT REQUIRED
    11 Check Date in NMEA and go to 16 if date is correct
    12 New computer time
    13 send config
    14 get config
    11 Check Date in NMEA and go to 16 if date is correct
    15 repeat 13,14,11
    16 power cycle GPS receiver, repeat steps 1 - 4, Set computer time /date to current
    17 get config
    18 send config

    If you have to resort to the original steps, I would only add 9 -10, steps 6 and 7 should not be done
     
    Nuvi-Nebie, May 27, 2020
    #17
  18. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Thanks,
    I will let you know how it went.
    It will probably be next week before we finally get caught up to a point we aren't working these ridiculous hours and have time.
     
    proton32060, May 27, 2020
    #18
  19. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Nuvi,
    One final question.
    I am going to get everything setup tonight and will try the upgrade tomorrow after work.
    It doesn't matter, but if I don't get the steps exactly right on the first attempt and mess up can it be tried on the same unit again if I get it right the second time?
    Or is it, you only get one chance and if you mess up the damage is irreversible?
    Like I said, it doesn't matter but I would like to know if I try this and don't get it exactly right if it is possible to try again and get a good result.

    Like I said, I have never done this before and there is no way to rehearse it before I actually try.
     
    proton32060, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:14 PM
    #19
  20. proton32060

    proton32060

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    Nuvi,
    Apparently you can not edit a Post after a given amount of time.
    I went ahead and tried it tonight anyway.
    Initially, I was getting the 38,400 baud rate and the Config/ Get and Send options were grayed out.
    After messing with it for a while I exposed more of the leads on the GPS, put them back in the Serial Port Breakout Box, and tried again. I don't think all the wires were making a good connection in the Breakout box.

    When I tried it the second time it did search for a baud rate and settled at 4800 baud.

    I followed your steps exactly as you outlined above.
    I don’t know when you will read this but the upgrade was done June 2nd at 8:56PM EST.
    I had a problem because I was using an old Toshiba laptop in my shed so I did not have your posts with the color codes for the $GPRMC but when I printed it out I did make the red area you pointed out Bold and in italics.

    When I had finished all the steps the picture I included as an attachment is what was on the laptop screen. I wanted you to see it first because as I said, hooking it into the clock controller involves pulling a lot of wire through a lot of conduit and I figured you could tell by the screenshot if it was right without me having to use the clock controller to see if I fixed the problem.

    I am still not good at reading these sentences but it looks like it is saying the 3rd of June in the year 2020.

    If it is right I don’t understand it saying the 3rd of June instead of the 2nd unless it is telling me the date in Greenwich and they are about one day ahead of Eastern Standard Time.

    So I think it came out right but I wanted you to see it to make sure.
    If it did, I have one more question but I want to make sure I did it right first.

    IMG_0160a.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020 at 2:49 AM
    proton32060, Jun 3, 2020 at 2:39 AM
    #20
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