Einstein's Relativity and Everyday Life -- Clifford M. Will

| Tom Potter wrote:
| > Rational, intelligent, inventive, practical folks know
| > that it does not take 13 hacks of General Relativity to account for the
| > "38 microseconds per day, the XXXXXX offset in the rates of
| > the satellite clocks", when a simple equation discovered
| > by Galileo does the job better.
|
| Huh? Has relativity suddenly become controversial?

No, it has always been that way. Only shitheaded bigots would deny it.
Androcles




| Still, our lab attracts quantum-mechanics nutters
| from time to time, so I suppose it's only logical
| that there should be relativity nutters too. Are
| there any Boyles Law loonies or Snell's Law weirdos
| out there too?
|
| -Tim
| (Fully paid up member of the international physics conspiracy)

 

John C. Polasek, self-proclaimed savior of physics from itself:

If by ``terribly, terribly wrong,'' you mean that the kooky accusations
of scientific censorship are a complete fabrication which most likely
originates from the kook's failure to perform a reality check by actually
reading the journals they criticize, yes. What has gone wrong is that the
average crackpot lacks the ability and integrity to realize that his/her
difficulties getting published in a real journal might possibly be due
the quality of what is being submitted.

Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean. All I see is a list of authors
who are publishing work aimed at resolving some scientific question,
not all of whom appear to think that salvaging relativity is their first
priority in getting an article published. Are you objecting to the fact
that such articles are accepted or what?

Uh, drivel like what? Which articles did you read and which did you
employ clairvoyance to come to that conclusion?

Just because you prefer to piddle around in ignorance of the
science being done, doesn't mean that scientists ought to consider
your approach as a viable means of doing research.

In other words, what you were told was not stated bluntly enough
for the reality to sink in. See the paragraph above in which I
mention the most likely example of what is ``terribly, terribly wrong.''

By ``derive'' do you mean that you have rearranged some well-known
relationships from halliday and resnick into a non-intutive form with
no obvious connection to physical phenomena or that you've actually
solved what you claim? If you really have done what you claim, then
you should be able to answer at least a half-dozen questions that
immediately come to mind, each of which would earn you a nobel prize.


For example, what should the branching ratio for the decay,
\mu -> e\gamma be? Zero? Some value other than zero but smaller
than the known upper limit? Since for what you claim to be true, you would
have to have a fundamental explanation for the apparent non-observation of
such a decay, at best, you are kidding yourself about what you've done.
Perhaps you should try reading a few journals, if for no other reason than
to make certain you know the questions to include and the jargon to use
when checking to see that you've included answers for everything.

 

It is interesting to see that "Phineas T Puddleduck"
ignores (Or is ignorant of the fact) that the frequency offset
in the GPS satellites can be determined using an equation
that Galileo discovered over 200 years ago,
and that it is not necessary to use 13 hacks of Geranial Relativity
to account for the frequency offset.

Also note that "Phineas T Puddleduck" parrots
one of the standard, boilerplate General Relativity
Urban Legends, and uses the standard, boilerplate tactic used by
General Relativity Cultists, of attacking the messenger.

As I indicated:
After 100 years General Relativity
continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.

If as he claims,
General Relativity is a useful model of reality,
I challenge "Phineas T Puddleduck" to work out a few practical examples,
rather than post useless references, attack messengers,
and create strawmen.

I dare say that, like 99.44% of all GTR cultists,
"Phineas T Puddleduck" is ignorant of General Relativity,
and that he will be unable to demonstrate that GTR
is a viable way to model real world problems.

I suggest that
if it looks like a parrot,
squawks like a parrot,
parrots dogma,
attacks messengers with boilerplate chatter,
and is unable to use the model it parrots in a useful way,
it is a PARROT.

And I suggest that
parrots are the greatest enemies of science.

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com

 

It is interesting to see that "Phineas T Puddleduck"
claims that I "have absolutely no idea how GPS Works."

Excerpts from an old post of mine about the GPS system follows.
I challenge "Phineas T Puddleduck" to make a similar post
outlining his knowledge of the GPS system.

"1. Light travels at a constant speed
of 299,792.458 meters per second
in the absence of matter,
and in media with sparse matter,
such as the Earth's atmosphere.

2. Time interval measurements of E-M waves in air, and space,
are equivalent to distance measurements.
distance = time interval * C

3. Synchronized clocks can be used to
quantize the distance between the points
by measuring the time it takes light/radio waves
to travel from one point to another.
Clock(A) sends a message that it is time(X).
Clock(B) notes that it is time(X) + I1 on its' clock.
The distance between the clocks is
I1 * C

In other words, systems of synchronized clocks
can quantize the distances between the clocks,
by transmitting the time at each clock's location.

Any clock can determine the distances
between it and other clocks,
by simply determining time(I) for all of the other clocks.

For example,
if one measures a time delay of "I1" of a radio wave
from New York, they must be somewhere on
the surface of a sphere, with a distance radius of I1 * C,
centered about New York

If they also measure a time delay of "I2" of a radio wave
from San Francisco, they must be somewhere on
the surface of a sphere, with a distance radius of I2 * C,
centered about San Francisco.

If they measure both,
they must be on a circle represented by the
intersection of the two spheres.

As can be seen, the measurement of a third point,
would be the intersection of the circle with
another sphere, and would let tell the observer that
they are on one of two points.

A fourth measurement would resolve the situation,
and tell them at which of the two points they are
located.

4. As the GPS satellites are moving,
whereas New York and San Francisco are located
at fixed points (With respect to Earth bound observers.),
it is necessary that GPS receivers know where
the satellites were when they transmitted the time.

This is handled, by having each satellite
transmit its' position in space, along with
the time data.

Each satellite not only transmits where it is ("ephemeris data"),
it transmits its' orbital data ("almanac data"),
along with its' time.

The "ephemeris data"
serves the same purpose to the GPS receiver,
as the Sun does is to a sailor with a sextant.

5. Ground stations continuously monitor
the satellites' orbits and transmissions,
and signals are sent to the satellites,
updating their "almanac data", their "ephemeris data",
their time settings, and drift in their clocks
with respect to the master clock on Earth.

The GPS clocks are set,
to some reference time,
just as your digital watch is,
the only difference being that
the ticks are far more stable, and much finer,
nanoseconds, rather than tenths of seconds.

Drifts in oscillators are corrected by
inserting "ticks", and by adjusting
divider circuits to divide by the desired count.

6. As portable GPS receivers do not have
extremely stable oscillators, they must
derive precision times from the satellites.

As the satellites are at an altitude of about 11,000 miles,
and radio waves travel 186,000 miles in one second,
it takes about .006 seconds for the
time, ephemeris, and almanac data
to reach a sea level receiver.

This means that in a typical transmission,
the GPS receiver must subtract about .006 seconds
from its' clock, in order to set its' clock.
GPS receivers receive and average the times
from several satellites, and recursively
home in on the master time, and make an adjustment
for recursively computed position of the satellite.

In other words, at the reception of the first data,
the GPS receiver knows the master time to about .006 seconds
higher than the first time it receives,
and as it picks up signals from other satellites,
and recursively computes the distances to the
satellites, and averages out multi-path signal variations,
its' own clock homes in on the master clock time.

As the satellites take about 12 hours
(43200 seconds) to orbit the Earth,
and the ephemeris data takes about .006 seconds
to reach the receiver, this means that
a suitable GPS receiver can determine where the
satellite is to an accuracy of about one part in
43000 / .006 = 71600000 parts,
even without clock and ephemeris corrections.

Considering that the Earth is about
24,000 miles or 126,000,000 feet in circumference,
this amounts to a sphere of uncertainty of about
1.76 feet at sea level.

7. The clocks used in the GPS system are extremely stable.
They have a long term and short term stability
of about 1 part in 10^14 over one day and even months.

As there are about 3 x 10^13 Microseconds in a year,
this means that the GPS clocks can maintain microsecond
agreement for over a year, even if no corrections are made.

But of course, adjustments ARE made to the clocks
on a regular basis by a ground clock,
to which all of the GPS clocks are referenced to.

8. As the satellites have a life expectancy of about 10 years,
their orbits are very stable.
In other words, when ground stations get a fix on a satellite's orbit,
we know pretty much where the satellite will be for a long time, and
GPS receivers on the ground have an extremely dependable target to sight on

9. There is some variation in the time it takes the
signal to reach the receiver due to multi paths
taken by the radio wave to the GPS receiver,
so GPS receivers are programmed to compute out the
multi-path variations, and to compute the time,
using the most reliable data it gets from
several satellites.

10. The GPS satellites broadcast on two carrier frequencies:
L1 at 1575.42 MHz and L2 at 1227.6 MHz.
They transmit a "coarse acquisition code" at 1.0 bits per nanosecond and
a "precision code" at a bit rate of 10.230 bits per nanosecond.

As light travels at about 300,000,000 meters per second,
or 300 meters in one micro-second,
a one nano second error would result in an error sphere of about .3 meters
( One foot), and a 10 nanosecond error would
result in an error of about 3 meters or ten feet.

By averaging data from multiple satellites,
a receiver can reduce the timing uncertainty
due to multipaths, and can reduce the error sphere
by only averaging where the error spheres
of several satellites overlap.

The single largest contributor to time transfer uncertainty is path delay,
the delay introduced as the signal travels from the satellite
to the receiver.

In order to measure the time interval most accurately,
a quasi-random code is used. The GPS receiver performs
an auto-correlation on the quasi-random signal
in order to eliminate the jitter in the leading edge
of the transmitted signal, caused by transmitter noise,
receiver noise, environmental noise, multipath signal combining,
jamming, etc.

In other words, a segment of the quasi-random signal is
incrementally delayed, and multiplied by the signal stream.
If two string of random numbers are multiplied,
a maximum occur when and if the strings match,
otherwise the product tends toward zero.

The Military can play games with the GPS signals by
juggling the "precision code" signals,
and thus messing up the accuracy
to which a GPS receiver can the time interval.
(But this juggling can be overcome with a suitable receiver.)

In summary, the largest contributor
to time transfer uncertainty is caused by
variations path delay, due to signals reflected
off mountains, buildings, etc., and as note,
much of the path delay errors can be averaged out,
because the satellites are moving, and signals
are received from several satellites.

The best GPS receivers can,
by using the methods addressed above,
reduce the uncertainty in time to about one nanosecond,
which amounts to a sphere of uncertainty of about one foot.

For more of my articles on the GPS system,
do a Google search on "tom potter" and GPS. "

I dare say that "Phineas T Puddleduck"
knows a much about the GPS system
as he does about General relativity,
and that is almost nothing.

As I did not discuss the critical factors
of correlators, and the reason why the frequency offset
in the satellite oscillators are USEFUL, but not essential,
(And so did not educate "Phineas T Puddleduck" on these factors.)
I challenge "Phineas T Puddleduck" to address these
factors to demonstrate his understanding of the GPS system.

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com

 

GPS takes into account the fact that
a) Moving clocks run slow
b) Clocks run slow in a gravitational potential well.

THAT is the source of the GR corrections of GPS. Something you
obviously lack the simple maths to understand.

gravitational lensing
explaining the residual perihelion precession of mercury AFTER all
Newtonian n-body perturbations have been accounted for
giving the correct figure for light deflection which the newtonian
model can only account for half
GPS and the need for GR and SR corrections

Theres some starters for you - the math for the last three only
requires some calculus and should be in your grasp.

I'm no expert in GR true. But I know enough to know that its a way
better fit to phenomena in the universe then any Newtonian model.

This parrot is an ex-parrot - it has ceased to be...

--
The greatest enemy of science is psuedoscience.

"Time is pseudo-directional because randomness is always pseudo-random..."
Jeff revolutionises physics in sci.physics.

"Now there's two stuck naysay lose cannons and a third sick puppy on the way."
Brad tries to reason with the voices in his head...

 

Read the eftaylor.com project on GPS. It outlines that.

a) The satellite atomic clock runs slow because it is a moving clock -
a correction needed from SR

b) The satellite clock runs fast (compared to the earthbound clocks) as
they are not in as deep a gravitational well as the earth bound clocks,
as predicted by GR.

As a result - there is a discrepancy in rates between the two clocks.
The need to synch is BECAUSE of relativistic changes.

Read the eftaylor link. It explains everything with rigourous maths.

--
The greatest enemy of science is psuedoscience.

"Time is pseudo-directional because randomness is always pseudo-random..."
Jeff revolutionises physics in sci.physics.

"Now there's two stuck naysay lose cannons and a third sick puppy on the way."
Brad tries to reason with the voices in his head...

 

Polly want a cracker?

I posted:
"As I did not discuss the critical factors
of correlators, and the reason why the frequency offset
in the satellite oscillators are USEFUL, but not essential
I challenge "Phineas T Puddleduck" to address these
factors to demonstrate his understanding of the GPS system."

As can be seen, "Phineas T Puddleduck" is just a parrot
and can only parrot what he has been conditioned to parrot.

Parrots are unable to demonstrate understanding of
the laws of nature.

"Phineas T Puddleduck" did demonstrate his ability to creatively lie
when he posted: "<SNIPPED c/p from some website>".

Or maybe he has been conditioned to repeat phrases like this.

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com

 

All those words just to admit he doesn't have the mathematical capacity
to understand the nature of relativistic corrections in GPS.

All those words and not one to say - I read your links and understand
them.

All those words and not one to say "TP doesn't have the mathematical
capability to do the rudimentary highschool calculus needed to prove
the nature of GR corrections in GPS".

But please, go ahead and order yourself a non-relativistic GPS unit.
Demand on it - save your money. Then I'll buy you a nice safari in
Kenya for a month where you can hike around using it.

I'll arrange for you to be picked up in Tibet, mm-kay.

PS. Projection is when you endlessly accuse others of what you do.

--
The greatest enemy of science is psuedoscience.

"Time is pseudo-directional because randomness is always pseudo-random..."
Jeff revolutionises physics in sci.physics.

"Now there's two stuck naysay lose cannons and a third sick puppy on the way."
Brad tries to reason with the voices in his head...

 

A $30B+ industry, applying relativity to create a global
infrastructure benefiting people all over the world got
your goat, eh Potter (Willy Lowman).

 

A $30B+ industry, applying relativity to create a global
infrastructure benefiting people all over the world got
your goat, eh Potter (Willy Lowman).

 

Polly want a cracker?

Parrots all use the same phrases,
and display no understanding of what they parrot.

I wonder if a parrot could be trained to
solve a useful, real world problem?

After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.

After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.

After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.

Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.

General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
and as "Phineas T Puddleduck" PARROTS:
"gravitational lensing, explaining the residual perihelion precession of
mercury"
and other such useless data fits.

As can be seen from parrot references,
Clifford M. Will fit the GPS oscillator offsets
to General Relativity with 13 hacks.

If one makes enough hacks to GTR
they can fit GTR to any set of data.

As I mentioned, when I see the astrologers,
and fortune tellers setting on a tiny stools telling fortunes,
I think of Clifford M. Will and the other GTR hucksters
who are on the taxpayer dole.

And when I see the responses of people like Phineas T Puddleduck",
I think of a parrot.

You'd think that if they possessed powerful, esoteric knowledge
that they would make use of it, rather than trying to convince folks
into thinking that their knowledge was the key to the universe.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

And as can be seen from Phineas T Puddleduck's
dishonest effort to redirect the response to his post to an
adolescent newsgroup,
"A wasted mind is a terrible thing."

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com

 

This is just one example of Potter not having a clue about the
basic operation of the Global Positioning System.

The C/A code
has a *chip* rate of 1.023 Mbps and a *bit* rate of 50 bps

The P(Y) code
has a *chip* rate of 10.23 Mbps and a *bit* rate of 50 bps

 

Polly, look heres a mathematical treatment of how GR and SR is used to
make corrections in GPS systems..

"AWKKKKK POLLY WANNA A CRACKER. NO SUCH THING AS GR"

Polly, look heres a mathematical proof that GR successfully predicts
the perihelion precession of Mercury

"AWKKKKK POLLY WANNA A CRACKER. NO SUCH THING AS GR"

"AWKKK USELESS DATA DOESN'T FIT MY MINDSET"

Polly, look heres a proof of the correction value for gravitational
deflection


"AWKKKKK POLLY WANNA A CRACKER. NO SUCH THING AS GR"

If anyone is the parrot, it is you k00kboy. Persisting in your sad
fallacy that you hold the key to the universe.

--
The greatest enemy of science is psuedoscience.

"Time is pseudo-directional because randomness is always pseudo-random..."
Jeff revolutionises physics in sci.physics.

"Now there's two stuck naysay lose cannons and a third sick puppy on the way."
Brad tries to reason with the voices in his head...

"General Relativity is a Tower of Babel that wastes time, money and minds on
such pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves.."
Tom saves us from ourselves and badly written scifi.

 

But it takes far less hacks then the Newtonian case...

--
The greatest enemy of science is psuedoscience.

"Time is pseudo-directional because randomness is always pseudo-random..."
Jeff revolutionises physics in sci.physics.

"Now there's two stuck naysay lose cannons and a third sick puppy on the way."
Brad tries to reason with the voices in his head...

"General Relativity is a Tower of Babel that wastes time, money and minds on
such pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves.."
Tom saves us from ourselves and badly written scifi.

 

A $30B+ industry, applying relativity to create a global
infrastructure benefiting people all over the world got
your goat, eh Potter (Willy Lowman).

 

Am I right in guessing this k00k has a history of this Sam? He seems
pretty clue resistant.

--
The greatest enemy of science is psuedoscience.

"Time is pseudo-directional because randomness is always pseudo-random..."
Jeff revolutionises physics in sci.physics.

"Now there's two stuck naysay lose cannons and a third sick puppy on the way."
Brad tries to reason with the voices in his head...

"General Relativity is a Tower of Babel that wastes time, money and minds on
such pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves.."
Tom saves us from ourselves and badly written scifi.

 

Potter is a well known crank
http://www.google.com/search?q=potter+site:www.crank.net
http://www.google.com/search?q=potter+fumble+site:users.pandora.be

 

You've just made my week with that second site ;-) I'm gonna get me
some popcorn...

--
The greatest enemy of science is psuedoscience.

"Time is pseudo-directional because randomness is always pseudo-random..."
Jeff revolutionises physics in sci.physics.

"Now there's two stuck naysay lose cannons and a third sick puppy on the way."
Brad tries to reason with the voices in his head...

"General Relativity is a Tower of Babel that wastes time, money and minds on
such pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves.."
Tom saves us from ourselves and badly written scifi.

 

No doubt Erik Max Francis' web site
will suit "Phineas T Puddleduck" just fine,
as Erick is an unemployed computer programmer
who took some data processing classes
at a third rate California college,
and he knows as much about physics as Sam Wormley,
Dork Moortel and "Phineas T Puddleduck"

I suspect that I am the motivation for
Erik's web site, as I drove him off sci.physics years ago
when I exposed his ignorance of physics.

As my physics is bulletproof
Erik attacks my poem "God is Culture" as "cranky" religion,
when in fact the poem is about the evolution of the universe.
Erick, like Sam Wormley, has a reading comprehension problem,
and they don't comprehend the poem is about evolution.

As can be seen, Erick's web site
is Sam Wormley's primary reference site,
and I dare say that it will also be a main reference
for "Phineas T Puddleduck", as he, like Sam,
is incapable of addressing messages,
and like Sam. he attacks the messengers.

Here are excerpts from Erik's resume.
Contact him if you know of an opening at Taco Bell.

===================================================
Erik Max Francis
San Jose, CA, USA
Formats: HTML, text, PostScript, PDF.
EMAIL
WEB http://www.alcyone.com/max/
UPDATED 2004 Jun 19


OBJECTIVE

To obtain gainful employment in a challenging position at a forward-looking
company, utilizing my particular skills and talents under a Unix, Unix-like,
or platform-agnostic environment.

SKILLS

Operating systems: Linux, Solaris and other Unix-like operating systems
(System V and BSD); IRIX, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc.

WORK EXPERIENCE

Voluntary time off work. (2002-)
Pursued recreational programming projects and released numerous open source
contributions; familiarized self with basics of new languages such as APL/J,
Io, Scheme, Tcl; strengthened Python programming skills; increased Python
programming community involvement (see Relevant Activities below).

EDUCATION
Attended De Anza College (Cupertino, CA), with particular emphasis on
computer science courses.

==================

It will be interesting to see if
"Phineas T Puddleduck" reads and comprehends Dork Moortel
so-called "fumbles".

As can be seen, when I pointed out that
it is better to get one's information from the "horse's mouth"
than from a "horse's ass" he listed this as a "fumble".
Apparently, Dork, like Sam, and "Phineas T Puddleduck"
prefer getting his information from a horse's ass.

Have fun "Phineas T Puddleduck".
You are in good company with Erik Max Francis,
Sam Wormley, and Dork Moortel.

As can be seen, it didn't take "Phineas T Puddleduck" long
to define himself.

Parrots of the feather, horse's asses, and all that.

Polly want a cracker?

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com

 

Hopefully Sam's attempt to attack the messenger
will encourage folks to actually pursue his references,
and see what the facts are.

As can be seen, Dork Moortel called it a "fumble"
when I pointed out that one gets better information from the horse's mouth,
than from a "horse's ass" ( Like Dork Moortel, Erik Max Francis and Sam
Wormley).

And Erik Max Francis calls my poem "God is Culture"
"Cranky" religion, when in fact the poem is about evolution.
Erik has a serious reading comprehension problem.

Sam is famous for posting useless references,
that more often than not favor the person he is
trying to discredit.

It appears that Sam either doesn't read his references,
or else, he, like Erik, has a reading comprehension problem.

It is interesting to see that Sam and Dork think that
it is better to get their information from a "horse's ass',
rather than from the "horse's mouth", and
this explains the quality of their posts.

I will say that Sam Wormley is a stickler for punishment.
No matter how many times I expose his ignorance of physics and GPS,
and kick his ass, he hangs around for more punishment.

As can be seen Sam Wormley, Erik Max Francis, and Dork Moortel
all set up personal attack web sites featuring me,
after I exposed their ignorance,
and I dare say that Phineas T Puddleduck
will set up a personal attack web site,
after I (And others) expose his ignorance a few more times.

--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com